Author Topic: fight or flight?  (Read 26222 times)

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Offline boris

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fight or flight?
« on: March 06, 2004, 08:51:27 PM »
if/ when you find that the local security dudes have rolled up upon your expedition, do you typically hide, act natural and talk to them, run like bitches or throw explosives?
i usually employ the run-and-hide tactic, since i don't really look to respectable, particularly if i am wearing all black or whatever.
 

Offline Dakiel

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fight or flight?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2004, 10:42:16 PM »
Everything depends on the situation and your knowledge of the OPFOR (opposing force). {Here is where all the scouting comes in kids} If you are facing a security guard situation, they are usually (not always) contracted labor. EG the company is getting paid the big bucks 18-20$Hr and the actual guard is getting slightly above minimum wage @ $7hr. in this situation the security company needs to contact the local PD for backup and will very rarely do more than try to intimidate you until the actual police arrive. Depending on the personality of the guard it’s not worth it to do any actual work they are just there to collect a check and don’t want any actual confrontation. This only holds true if the guard is not a wanabe Police officer. This is where the walk away, be polite but don't let them detain you rule comes into play. If it’s the actual cops, Best policy is to be Honest and in this area Drop as many names as possible right away. (My buddy is a cop on ##### city department, my uncle is a lieutenant on **** department ECT.) Hopefully the cop will let you go. But the best advice is to not get caught, avoid risky situations until you are sure you can handle them. Where should I park, what to wear, black is good if it's at night but you stand out in a business environment. Dress appropriate to the situation. Depending on your age style of dress is always a factor. I can’t tell you how many sites I have scouted in business casual attire. As long as you look like you belong there no one questions you. If you wear a t-shirt with " Fu#k the World” written on it. You tend to look out of place and the noisy neighbor is likely to call the cops on you. Just my 2 cents take it for what its worth.            
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Offline SLADE

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fight or flight?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2004, 09:52:02 AM »
IF ALL ELSE FAILS TRY TO SEDUCE THE SECURITY GUARD!!!!  My 2 cents...LOVE SLADE!!! :rolleyes:  

Offline skully

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fight or flight?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2004, 08:23:44 PM »
I sort of like the run like bitches approach myself.
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Offline Sarge

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fight or flight?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2004, 03:58:15 PM »
My experience has led me to beleive that actual law enforcement officers will (usually) be much more lenient if you are freindly and honest with them.  Twice this year I have actually gotten permission from DEM officers to keep exploring an area after they had spotted me.  The simple fact that I did not run or try to hide what I was doing, and showed an honest interest in the historical aspects of the area were enough to persuade the officer I wasn't up to anything bad.

Paid security is what I am more concerned with.  They are usually "wannabe" law enforcement officers who want to use all the authority they can.  If they aren't the heros of the bunch who decide it's necessary to chase you through the woods, they'll act as though a state of emergency has been declared, and call down as many police officers as they can. Then, the officers will be pissed that they had to drive down there, and their patience will be short.  With these "almost cops", it's better to just get the hell out of Dodge.

Offline Dakiel

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fight or flight?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2004, 04:06:46 PM »
Its also good if you are familiar with the major local companies and who runs them, nothing puts a guard on edge more than if you know there boss.  
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Offline BOOFHAST

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fight or flight?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2004, 01:48:53 AM »
I think a lot has to do with who you are dealing with...say your walking around and next thing you know there's a set of flashlights heading in your general direction...id say make for a fast break in the other direction...But if say...you have been confronted...just be honest and friendly (ive been snagged several times now with town cops and cemetaries and i just friendly shoot the shit with them) and if you can see that the kind and friendly thing isn't workin...point to your invisible friend over their shoulder and when they turn to look, bolt

Claims to beboris

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fight or flight?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2004, 10:55:17 AM »
i forgot my password.
anyway,
yeah i tried the friendly thing a little while ago when i was busted for being retarded, it seemed to go ok, i wasn't arrested but i am waiting for a few months w/o a summons to court for celebration.

 

brent rainey

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fight or flight?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2004, 12:52:55 PM »
hi fellas   im one of those police wanna bees that you speak hightly of. :lol: . most of us arent assholes, most are contract guys. i work as the head of security in a local of dever st school. even if one calls the police on you the police are going to be much more leanent. if i ever catch you ill invite you back (on my own time) and give you the guided tour. ive been in and out of dever many times partied in the park since i was a kid. dever isnt the most intresting piece even in myles standish industrial park. im an avid  explorer of old military sites in south eastern mass. ive visited many spots forts and nike sites. im currently working on a project on the old camp myles standish. i have pics of old military stuff that still exists in the woods around many of the companys here. i love your site and would pay to become a member and adventure to the places you do i think what you guys get to do is awsome and up until i found this site i thought i was one of the only ones who liked this sort of thing keep it up

brent

Offline skully

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fight or flight?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2004, 12:37:47 AM »
Thanks for the post Brett.  Welcome to the community.  It's nice having someone like yourself to give a little perspective on "visting" these places.  Appreciate the input and welcome.
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Claims to beControl

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fight or flight?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2004, 12:07:05 AM »
Depends on the situation for me. Just last week we had NY's finest roll up and poke around while we were in a building, so we just stayed quiet and hung out. They left pretty much right away.

Security people are a lot more inclinded to hang out, but rarely do any ever bother even getting out of their cars, much less going into a building of questionable structural integ'.  

Claims to beControl

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fight or flight?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2004, 12:07:38 AM »
hey, I just claimed to be me! ;o) that rules!

Offline skully

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fight or flight?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2004, 07:37:32 PM »
The stupid thing should ask you for a password before doing all that claiming nonsense.   Oh well.  Free was the right price for this forum.  Good to see ya.  'S been a long time since I've been down to NYC for some sploring.  I was in lower  Manhattan in January and I could have sworn that I saw you in Guitar Center.  After a closer look I realized that it was not you.  I would have made a big ass outta myself if I did that.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2004, 07:10:47 AM by Skully »
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Offline PaExplorations

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fight or flight?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2004, 08:37:51 PM »
Cleavage and a smile.....works everytime

Offline Agent51

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fight or flight?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2004, 03:11:57 AM »
Quote
hi fellas   im one of those police wanna bees that you speak hightly of. :lol: . most of us arent assholes, most are contract guys. i work as the head of security in a local of dever st school. even if one calls the police on you the police are going to be much more leanent. if i ever catch you ill invite you back (on my own time) and give you the guided tour. ive been in and out of dever many times partied in the park since i was a kid. dever isnt the most intresting piece even in myles standish industrial park. im an avid  explorer of old military sites in south eastern mass. ive visited many spots forts and nike sites. im currently working on a project on the old camp myles standish. i have pics of old military stuff that still exists in the woods around many of the companys here. i love your site and would pay to become a member and adventure to the places you do i think what you guys get to do is awsome and up until i found this site i thought i was one of the only ones who liked this sort of thing keep it up

brent
it's cool to see people like brent who happen to work for "the enemy" (for lack of a better term) but are cool with what we do.  I see no reason why we shouldn't be allowed to explore these places if we are respectful to it and just generally interested in this kind of stuff.  Obviously you wanna keep out the vandals and assholes who just wanna wreck the place or use it to get high/drunk in(I have no objection to partying hard, I party hardcore all the time, I just don't think it should be done in these types of places cuz it causes them to be closed off or watched more closesly and ruins a good future exploring time), but the people who are being respectful to the place shouldn't be harrassed or even arrested.  I understand we aren't supposed to be there and stuff, but if unless we are fucking shit up just simply asking us to leave will usually work, we don't need to be harrassed or arrested just for looking.  I am also with brent when I say that I though I was one of the only people who liked this kind of stuff and I am glad I found this site, it rocks.  I went to the Ladd School last friday (I didn't know about the police and all those kids and stuff) and was surrounded by three cars full of big security guys as soon as I turned the corner near the circular building.  They just blocked us off but didn't get out or say anything so we went to drive around em and drive away but they told us to pull over.  We did and one guy was like "What are you doing?" and we just lied and said we were coming from a friend's house and we got lost on the way back to Newport.  The guy looked a little pissed at first and like he didn't believe us so then we kept it going by asking for directions back to the bridge and stuff and that seemed to make him believe us and he gave us directions and we thanked him and we left.  He was all pissed and a semi-dick at first but when we showed him respect and asked a simple question and he saw we weren't gonna be assholes, he turned cool.  I'd say just be honest and tell em you were curious and thats all and you didn't break anything or wreck stuff, you were just looking.  It's the best ya can do.  If you see cops/security and they don't see you, you can always hide, but if they see ya, running just makes it seem like you were doing bad stuff so just talk to em, if ya get in trouble, you get in trouble, it's the risk we all know we are taking going into these places, we know we aren't supposed to be there.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2004, 03:14:17 AM by Agent51 »
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Offline curr

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fight or flight?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2004, 10:45:12 AM »
i always run like hell (security or police),having no money will do that to ya/i read all that shit in the paper about the ladd center, makes me pretty pissed since we used to go there all the time, and we used to park way down the street so we wouldent get caught or ruin it for others/after about 20 minutes of walking through the woods we would get to the buildings and see cars parked right there all the time, i guess people think if they didnt get caught before they never will, but now its done for us all...........or is it..............

Offline boris

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fight or flight?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2004, 06:54:31 PM »
by explaining yourself to cops, you really put youself at their mercy. while they may not decide to prosecute, by being open and talking to them, you do tooootally incriminate yourself, since you'll probably have to admit you've been in the building, and that you've been thinking about it for a while and you are aware that it's not legal to enter. and entering an abandoned building, regardless of whether or not you so much as pushed open an open door constitutes breaking and entering, at least in massachusetts.... also, if you say anything/have anything that could be construed as the intent to commit any crime (vandalism, smoking pot, underage drinking, sodomy, whatever), they've got you on at least attempted burglary, which contrary to popular belief, means that you broke and entered and commited a crime therein, not necessarily a theft. (again, in massachusetts, i have no idea about other states). so if they decide not to charge you, that's awesome, but if they felt like it, they'd have you admitting to criminal tresspass, breaking and entering, and possibly burglary,vandalism,bla bla bla.

if you run away and are later detained, by saying nothing, you are sure to be arrested and threatened with all kinds of dreadful things, but later on, without your admissions, i would think it would be hard to prosecute you for much more than criminal tresspassing or maybe resisting arrest.....although i'm sure they'd throw many more charges on to squeeze a plea bargain outta you. unless they catch you IN the building or coming out, if you don't admit you went in, i would think it would be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt you've entered it.

it's a gamble either way i guess.
also, i'm not a lawyer, don't quote me on that. it's just me 2 cents.

Offline sneaker

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fight or flight?
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2004, 10:40:14 PM »
I used to be one of those security gaurds for an industrial securty group. The only reason we were on site was for insurance purposes. Belive it or not, most of teh old abandoned buildings are stil owned by someone and are the owners always have insurance on them praying the building burns out. One factory in pawcatuck CT we were "indirectly" (if ya know what I mean) told to take our time calling the police if a fire ever brook out.

Point is alot of the gaurds are just there for nothing. If it's a small gaurd company you can try finding the gaurd and just talking to them. They might not let you wander freely around the site, but they will most likely go explore with you or let you go on the rounds with them. They normally know where all the cool parts of the sites are anyways.

I got myself into Yardney's in downtown pawcatuck where they build batteries for space flights and nuclear submarines. Pretty cool shit. they have "acid" rooms that have holes burned in the concrete form all of the chemicals they use.

Hell, I let a few people in myself when i worked security, even let some people walk away with some stuff, but I stayed with them the whole time in case the boss showed. Had nothin better to do during an 8 or 12 hour shift in an abandoned building.

Offline MovingUnit

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fight or flight?
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2004, 10:46:51 PM »
I've got an interesting story to add to this.

So, about three months ago my group and I were visiting an abandoned mental facility that we hadn't been to for a while, but used to visit on a weekly basis (I won't give the location so as to incriminate any of the involved), when we got busted by security.  

I was up front with the guy, told him we were just interested in looking around, taking pictures of the architecture, etc...and he was completely cool with it.  We ended up shooting the shit for an hour while he walked around the buildings with us.  As we were leaving he told us to come back and visit him any time, that he got pretty lonely sitting in this place for 8-10 hours every day.  He even told us he would tell the other members of security not to bother us if they saw our car!

To make a long story short, we go to visit him every couple of weeks, and have gotten to be really good friends (I've even gotten to meet his kids lol), and have unrestricted access to this place...all because I was totally honest with this guy about who we were.

Offline skully

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fight or flight?
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2004, 08:04:22 AM »
Wow.  That is great!  I guess my choice to flee probably isn't a good idea.
 
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Claims to besargentpaint

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fight or flight?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2004, 07:46:12 PM »
oj first of the guy who said wear black quict watching movies black doesnt help you blend in at night you stick out more because your darker than your sourrounding and dont say you see swat teams spec ops etc, wearing it thay only wear  black bdus for intimadation . if you want to not be seen wear forest green bdus (the standard green fatigues ) or if you wanna be really stealthy you could get what i have and get the digi camo marpat bdus (ones that the marines have )

and i have been to alot of abandoned places  and honestly i dont get caught ever (also getting caught istn really an option when you are carring around and mp5 or a psg 1 i dont think a security gurad ill let that go) those are airsoft guns case you didnt know .


anyway  way i manage to get away is to do 1.recon check when there guards are there  were thay go make there rounds etc ,2.if thay dont move create a distraction i find a flair on the ground at a distance works good or if its in your buddget (there 25 bucks a pice ) pop a smoke grenade its not really a grenade since it dont blow. or if you need to throw a rock on the ground near thenm or a tin cand .


last plan you  ingress and your egress routes ahead of time so you can get out of there ina hurry if ya need to well thats all

Offline skully

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fight or flight?
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2004, 01:00:02 AM »
LOL.  Cans?  Maybe a whistle.  Has someone been playing Splinter Cell lately? :D  
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Offline curr

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fight or flight?
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2004, 10:32:39 AM »
wearing all black is definetly not a good idea/if youre wearing full camo, youre gunna look pretty suspicious/are you really carring around air guns?

devnull

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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2004, 07:20:15 PM »
word; carrying airsoft guns is an invitation to get shot.  with REAL bullets.  you know, the ones that KILL.  your airsoft pellets and surefire flashlight aren't gunna do shit when a security guard spots you from distance with binos and sees that gun; he's gunna call the fucking cops and they're gunna put some 9x19's in your chest and skull.

as far as clothing, i wear camo green bdu pants, and a green/black button up longsleeve flannel...looks less hard-core than being out in full combat camo.  plus my black backpack of water and food and other basic goods.  i have a prybar, but it stays in my car, in a tool bag.  don't wanna get popped for B&E or burglarious tools.

daylight runs, i try to look as presentable as possible; nice bluejeans and a polo shirt.  just a matter of staying smart and avoiding the bad guys in the first place, but if they do end up spotting you, looking like a respectable tourist / sight-seer type is so much better than being dressed for war.  ;)

 

Offline boris

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fight or flight?
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2004, 02:12:40 AM »
people have always said the bit about the black causing your outline to stick out but that's crap. yeah in the moonlight you could pick out a silohette. the same is true for any solid color, be it the "standard" OD green or dark blue. the fact is, you're outline is visible in the moonlight with a woodland pattern almost as much when you are on the move, or standing in front of an area lighter than your duds. if you lay down in the forest, a casual glance may not pick out the woodland pattern, because your outline is broken up, which is the purpose of camo, not the color. in the dark, green fatigues won't break it up any more than black will.
if they tag you with the flashlight, you're fucked regardless, unless you've got a ghillie suit or at least taken care of your face, hands, hair and boots.  not to mention the pattern stands out in fields or contrasted against buildings.  
black works as well as anything else that doesn't reflect light,  as long as you stay in the shadows and pay attention to the light contrast.  
plus, whaddya do, park and walk to the place in full BDUs with an ALICE pack, face painted? black jeans and a dark sweater/ sweatshirt/flannel whatever might be slightly sketchy, but not that bad.

not sure the flare is such a rad idea man, if that catches some shit on fire you could burn the whole complex down. plus, they could dust the smoke grenades/flare shell. not sure if they would, but they could, potentially.
and airsoft guns?!?
you're telling me to stop watching movies?

Offline metalwitch

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fight or flight?
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2004, 06:23:30 PM »
Quote
Cleavage and a smile.....works everytime
I like the run part myself, but I'll try the quoted reply.

Offline Maniac

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Re: fight or flight?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2005, 02:41:00 AM »
LOL.  Cans?  Maybe a whistle.  Has someone been playing Splinter Cell lately? :D  
LOL that cracked me up.
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Offline elpresidente

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Re: fight or flight?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2006, 06:51:36 PM »
My experience has led me to beleive that actual law enforcement officers will (usually) be much more lenient if you are freindly and honest with them.  Twice this year I have actually gotten permission from DEM officers to keep exploring an area after they had spotted me.  The simple fact that I did not run or try to hide what I was doing, and showed an honest interest in the historical aspects of the area were enough to persuade the officer I wasn't up to anything bad.

Paid security is what I am more concerned with.  They are usually "wannabe" law enforcement officers who want to use all the authority they can.  If they aren't the heros of the bunch who decide it's necessary to chase you through the woods, they'll act as though a state of emergency has been declared, and call down as many police officers as they can. Then, the officers will be pissed that they had to drive down there, and their patience will be short.  With these "almost cops", it's better to just get the hell out of Dodge.

Generally speaking, I would have to back this up- the psychology of the personell that you're up against is important.  For the most part, unless you are obviously breaking in, simply being polite and expressing the interest in the historical component of the site you're on will do the trick.  I've also found that being willing to show them your equipment (i.e., camera, tripod, whatever) adds to your credibility.  Perhaps credentials like being a member of the local historical society.

I'd say if you get a bad feeling and you can slip out undetected, do so, if not, act casual but respectful and explain your interest in the historical significance of the site- hell say you're there doing field research for an article or some sort of literary project.  If the security guard plays rambo, then I would apologize for being there and leave- don't let him detain you.  He doesn't have arrest powers. 

I've had success in the past with state rangers allowing me to stay and continue working since I was clearly taking photos.
Don't waive your rights with your flags.
-Sage Francis

Offline urbanexplorer

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Re: fight or flight?
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2006, 10:38:22 PM »
i was up to a site last week when i ran into the state police i took Dakiels advise with a twist i went up to the police and talked to him and i didnt tell him why i was there i told a little lie instead and got a have a goodnight he was actually  very cool thanks for the advise
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 09:07:29 AM by urbanexplorer »
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Offline elpresidente

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Re: fight or flight?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2006, 10:55:12 PM »
i was up at ladd last week when i ran into the state police i took Dakiels advise with a twist i went up to the police and talked to him and i didnt tell him why i was there i told a little lie instead and got a have a goodnight he was actually  very cool thanks for the advise

That's impressive- I understand that Ladd is notoriously hard to get into and because of its popularity, the police tend to be a bit more likely to give you hell over it.  Awesome work.
Don't waive your rights with your flags.
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